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Payscale 2013 rankings

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Replies to: Payscale 2013 rankings

  • LakeCloudsLakeClouds Posts: 49
    edited May 2013
    I'd rather just go by career survey reports provided by schools. Unfortunately some are not as comprehensive as others

    Are you referring to the reports that seniors fill out when graduating? It seems that would have all the same problems people have highlighted about payscale.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Posts: 296
    edited May 2013
    LakeClouds wrote:
    Are you referring to the reports that seniors fill out when graduating? It seems that would have all the same problems people have highlighted about payscale.

    While the data collection issues are similar, some of the schools do report survey results by major, which makes those schools' surveys much more informative (although one should use caution when comparing different schools due to differences in methodology and reporting). One would think that PayScale's much larger data set could be reported by both major and school (at least for large-enough majors and schools) instead of either-or.
  • LakeCloudsLakeClouds Posts: 49
    edited May 2013
    While the data collection issues are similar, some of the schools do report survey results by major, which makes those schools' surveys much more informative

    Maybe the government should require this be added to the common data set. Since most schools are really subsidized by one tax payer or another, it's reasonable to demand greater transparency as to how tax dollars are spent.
  • rhg3rdrhg3rd Posts: 27
    edited May 2013
    "Maybe the government should require this be added to the common data set."

    What? Government regulations for the common data set?
  • LakeCloudsLakeClouds Posts: 49
    edited May 2013
    What? Government regulations for the common data set?

    Yes - it can be optional - schools can refuse to accept government funding and not provide the data.

    I'd like a new section K. Graduate salaries by major
  • 3togo3togo Posts: 17
    edited May 2013
    There is a pretty long thread on CC somewhere discussing requiring schools to report job prospects of grads and salaries ... if you search for it you probably can find it
  • drax12drax12 Posts: 18
    edited May 2013
    To do so for the thousands of u’s for which Payscale claims accuracy in median salaries would take a large data-gathering group that would have to be beyond the scope of this company
    Good luck getting schools to give you this data, especially those that know they would not rank so well.

    Rather, good luck in getting any u to give anyone this data. A u's database of graduates is sealed pretty tightly, and any disclosure of information within this set has to be by consent of individual graduate -- for instance, a health-insurance company that contracts with a u to insure its graduates.
    The good thing about the Payscale survey is it does distinguish schools that provide marketable majors from those that don't. Many so-called top-schools offer an amazing number of non-marketable majors that then force students into grad school in hopes they will get some sort of employment down the line. In many cases these students just wind up with a PhD and still no gainful employment.

    The top schools in the nation don't need trade-related majors. A Harvard grad in English can just as likely land a plum WS job just as well as a grad from Wharton because of the name of the U. The important point is that most Harvard grads go to grad professional school in greater proportions than probably any other u, along with a good proportion that go the non-professional route with PHD's in the social sciences and humanities. Is there anyone who would want to argue against the idea that the best chance for a prospective college student to attend either HLS or YLS is by attending Harvard for undergrad? And is there anyone of material amt. that attended Harvard and didn't go to grad school and therefore become excluded from the survey?
    Do the detractors have a better dataset?

    Undoubtedly not. But just because a company purports its u-salary data as precise and accurate doesn't mean it is so, and in Payscale's case, this cannot possibly mirror reality. It is a statistical impossibility. So the greater condemnation falls on Payscale for doling out impossibly unreliable data, and for many sites, including Forbes and the WSJ, for believing its data and running with it.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Posts: 296
    edited May 2013
    drax12 wrote:
    Rather, good luck in getting any u to give anyone this data.

    Some universities do survey their graduates and post the results (level of detail varies; there are also variations in survey and reporting methodology, so caution is advised when comparing across schools).

    http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/internships-careers-employment/1121619-university-graduate-career-surveys-4.html
  • AlexandreAlexandre Super Moderator Posts: 66
    edited May 2013
    Yale University #93
    University of Virginia (in-state) #109
    University of Michigan-Ann Arbor (in-state) #122
    University of California-Los Angeles (in-state) #126
    Georgetown University #135
    University of Virginia (OOS) #174
    University of Michigan-Ann Arbor (OOS) #186
    University of California-Los Angeles (OOS) #192
    University of Chicago #246
    Northwestern University #286
    Emory University #308
    Macalester College #330
    Wesleyan University #332
    Pomona College #343
    Middlebury College #346
    University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (in-state) #362
    Oberlin College #452
    University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill (OOS) #496
    Bowdoin College #692
    Grinnell College #793
    Davidson College #870
    Wellesley College #992
    Reed College #1131

    I am no fan of Yale, but I cannot think of 92 universities I would pick over it! And the two Chicago elites? Woah!
  • drax12drax12 Posts: 18
    edited May 2013
    I understand, ucb. But I was referring to LakeClouds' "Good luck in getting schools to give you the data," in which I assumed "you" to mean Payscale. The u's themselves publish their own data without an outside entity like PS.

    I only question u-based employment reports because as you maybe intimated along with the different methodologies, they could be loaded with a bunch of biases; they could be seriously tilted towards favorable employment/grad-appt. outcomes. More successful recent grads would probably be more inclined to submit the questionnaire also.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Posts: 296
    edited May 2013
    Re: Reed

    If you look at the distribution of majors at Reed, its low ranking in the PayScale rank is no surprise: Reed College 2010-11 Common Data Set SecJ
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Posts: 296
    edited May 2013
    drax12 wrote:
    More successful recent grads would probably be more inclined to submit the questionnaire also.

    I keep seeing this claim, but what evidence is there that survey answerers are the more successful ones? Certainly some of the survey results indicate a sizeable percentage of new graduates still seeking employment, particularly in majors like biology which have poor job prospects.

    But even with whatever questions there may be on the survey methodology and reporting, the differences between majors within any given school do seem to be broadly similar across schools (e.g. biology majors generally tend to have a tough time in the job market).
  • drax12drax12 Posts: 18
    edited May 2013
    More successful recent grads would probably be more inclined to submit the questionnaire also.
    ucbalumnus wrote:
    I keep seeing this claim, but what evidence is there that survey answerers are the more successful ones? Certainly some of the survey results indicate a sizeable percentage of new graduates still seeking employment, particularly in majors like biology which have poor job prospects.

    I'm just saying that a more successful grad wrt new employment and/or grad appt., would more likely submit a questionnaire, not exclusively. The idea of someone who is a waiter in his/her first job would probably only submit a survey to gain help from the u's employment center; otherwise, he/she is most likely not going to divulge any status as to his/her underemployment because of shame or whatever.
    But even with whatever questions there may be on the survey methodology and reporting, the differences between majors within any given school do seem to be broadly similar across schools (e.g. biology majors generally tend to have a tough time in the job market).

    This may be a bio major's intention wrt under or unemploymet, also, because he/she may still have designs on attending med school or some other health-related field. He/she may be intentionally unemployed because he/she is studying for the MCAT or other health-related grad tests. Why would this person seek a job in VC if that's so far from what he/she wants professionally?

    Btw, excellent work in your link, related to all the Career Centers at all the campuses. I'm sorry that I just looked at your link just now. Great work.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Posts: 296
    edited May 2013
    drax12 wrote:
    I'm just saying that a more successful grad wrt new employment and/or grad appt., would more likely submit a questionnaire, not exclusively. The idea of someone who is a waiter in his/her first job would probably only submit a survey to gain help from the u's employment center; otherwise, he/she is most likely not going to divulge any status as to his/her underemployment because of shame or whatever.

    That does sound very speculative. Have there been any studies where non-responders to the usual surveys were contacted to find out if their answers would have been meaningfully different from those who responded to the usual surveys?

    Re: biology majors' intentional underemployment

    Seems unlikely, since someone trying to improve his/her qualifications for medical school would likely want to take some sort of biology job over an unrelated job. But then biology jobs do not appear to be very well paid. And it is not like every biology major would be in line for a high paying VC job if s/he wanted one.
  • ucbalumnusucbalumnus Posts: 296
    edited May 2013
    drax12 wrote:
    Btw, excellent work in your link, related to all the Career Centers at all the campuses. I'm sorry that I just looked at your link just now. Great work.

    Unfortunately, it does appear that only a small percentage of colleges and universities post any sort of by-major career survey results where the general public or prospective students can see them.
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